Should little kids go to Big church?

Great post with some great thoughts on wether or not kids should go to kids church or big church.

Even as a kids pastor I can see valid reasons for people to keep their kids in Big church. I however lean more toward kids attending kids church if kids church is engaging.

When kids church is not engaging it bothers me. When I hear rumblings that kids are not being engaged by the life-giving, life changing word of God I get annoyed real fast. Any way off my soap box. Check out the link below from the Stuff Christians like Bog.

#359. Arguing about taking little kids to big church.

More on Pipeline

Met with Mike and Gareth on Tuesday to discuss the Pipeline conference.

What it is:

Conference for Youth workers and Children’s workers

What we want to accomplish:

1. Help Youth workers and Kids workers see the value of collaboration
2. Create a conference that is a great balance of information/application/network connection

I think we all have been to conferences that inspire you through workshops and general sessions. We really want to do something that has never been done before. Inspire youth and children’s workers to work together to reach this generation, and do it through intensely practical, intensely relational means.

We want to create a conference that you leave from with new ideas, fresh resources, strengthened relationships and life-giving network connections.

Pipeline: because we are all connected. November 14th and 15th 2008.

Phone Call with Tammy Melchien

Just got off the phone with Tammy Melchien. Tammy currently serves as the Executive Director of Kids’ City, the Children’s Ministry of Community Christian Church. CCC is a multi-site church with 8 locations in the Chicagoland area.

Her pastor wrote the book “The Big Idea”. It is a fantastic book that basically cast vision for the youth, children and adults to take home 1 thought that week instead of multiple different thoughts. It is the power of one consistent message to walk out that week.

Here are some of the main point Tammy said that stuck in my mind that further explain how the Big Idea works for kids.

– All series’ are hashed out between the children, adults, and student teams. If the series doesn’t work for one of the three age groups it is rarely done.

– The kids team takes the adult message content and comes up with a one sentence take away.

– Small Group leaders serve weekly, Kids communicators serve once a month.

– Tammy said that in writing the curriculum it is important to base the lesson that week in a tangible story in the bible. For example when talking about love with students or adults using 1 Cor. 13. With kids you would talk more about Ruth and Naomi or David and Jonathan.

– When writing curriculum for the Big Idea they generally write with the smallest campus in mind so that everything is reproducible on every level.

– When they don’t match the adult service they do something fun and creative.

Tammy was very gracious and is doing great things in Chicago area. Hopefully someday I’ll be able to make it over to the big yellow box and check it out for myself. Check out their church site. Make sure you tell Jeff I said hi.

Working together 3 of 4 (Collusion is more than a good idea)

Another way I believe that child and youth ministries can work together is through sharing resources.
I know that one of the ways I have seen God bless and use our children’s ministry and youth ministry in our church is by using our strengths to strengthen each other not just our position.

There are many factors but often times youth ministry and children’s ministry seem to fight over the same piece of the pie. When you work together with the same hart and vision you will see God do amazing things.

What are some ways we can share resources.

1. Volunteers – As a children’s pastor you can help the youth pastor recognize gifts and develop those gifts by leading the youth volunteers that serve.

2. Budget – I remember in 1998 we combined our budgets to buy a digital camera and to edit videos on the first iMovie software Apple come out with. We worked together and both the youth and children’s department were blessed.

3. Relationship – Spend time together. I working together is one thing but to really get to know what makes the other tick takes time.

4. Ministry overlap – We do something quite odd. We share the 7th grade most kids ministries stop at 5 grade or Youth ministry start at 8th the combinations are limitless. We have chosen to share the 7th grade as a way to transition kids successfully from one ministry to the other.

I challenge you conspire, collaborate do what you must but work together.

Rom. 12:3 ¶ As God’s messenger, I give each of you this warning: Be honest in your estimate of yourselves, measuring your value by how much faith God has given you.
Rom. 12:4 Just as our bodies have many parts and each part has a special function,
Rom. 12:5 so it is with Christ’s body. We are all parts of his one body, and each of us has different work to do. And since we are all one body in Christ, we belong to each other, and each of us needs all the others.

Working together 2 of 4 (Do you see what I see?)

When you look at a kid do you see the same thing your youth pastor sees?

I believe that commonality of vision is one on the most important things Youth Pastors and Children’s Pastors must share.

Because you have commonality does not mean you have to be a carbon copy. You don’t have to do everything the Youth Pastor does in kid format. But it does mean sharing with each other the values that will define what a disciple looks like.

Sit down with you Youth Pastor and ask these questions.

1. What am I doing to hinder your success?

2. What am I doing that is helping you?

3. What are the 3 things you want every kid to know to be prepared for Youth group/church.

4. How can we help kids make the transition from kids ministry to youth ministry.

5. What resources can we share to make both of our ministries more effective.

6. Are we providing opportunities for face time in each ministry. (When I say face time I don’t mean you have to speak at each others service but are you physically supporting each other.)

Working Together. (1 of 4)

You need to start with the end in mind. What is the goal of a successful children’s ministry?

I have had a few conversations with children’s pastors who seemed happy that kids don’t want to leave their ministry. To me that is very self serving and unnatural. I believe a successful children’s ministry works hand in hand with the youth ministry.

What success looks like to me.

1. How well do kids transition to the youth ministry
2. Are we preaching the same values the youth department is.
3. What is my relationship with youth pastor like?
4. Am I genuinely happy when the youth ministry is successful?
5. Are there places where young people can be involved in ministry?
6. Am I helping the Youth Pastor develop leaders through their ministry involvement.

Staff Retreat 2008

We are pounding it out at our yearly staff meeting, in the heart of NYC. Good stuff

Children’s Pastor: Help Wanted

What are most churches looking for in a children’s pastor.

1. Education
2. Experience
3. Passionate about God
4. Passionate about kids
5. Organizational skills
6. Vision
7. Works well with volunteers

I think that church should look for:

1. Passion for God
2. Education
3. Passion for kids and families
4. Chemistry with staff especially with the youth pastor
5. Ability reproduce themselves in others
6. Vision to attract leaders
7. Ability to sell vision to leaders.
8. Able to recognize gifts and abilities of others. Know how to place who where.
9. Creativity
10. Ability to fail well.

Trying to keep this post short this time but head over to Children’s Ministry online Kenny has a much better list than me check it out.

Why are Children’s Pastors so lame?

I want to attempt to answer my own question, Why do most young people going into the ministry want to be youth pastors? But first a couple of your responses.

From jonathancliff.com He had lots of other great thoughts check out his whole post here.

Why most Children’s Pastors wanted to be youth pastors?
Because it’s when we’re teenagers or college students that we really start trying to live out our Christian walk; and the first ‘church’ relationship we ever had was with our Youth pastor. Therefore, making the youth pastor role the coolest one we’ve ever known! On a side note… it could also be that children’s ministry leaves a bad memory for many…

Sarah Thompson had the following to say on her blog.

Did I see that excitement and passion in Sunday School? Nope! Did I see it at Youth Group? Absolutely! Youth Group is where the action happened. It’s where I saw God turn up.

Reasons why do most young people want to be youth pastors and not children’s pastors

1. Teens are more social and youth groups have become more small group socially connected in and out of church.
2. Teens are thinking more about the future and what they want to be is by in large decided more in High School than elementary school.
3. More churches value youth ministry and more time and energy are put into that age demographic
4. College’s and Seminaries have many ministry tracts focused on Teen ministry and very few focusing on ministry to kids.
5. Most kids have a negative or neutral children’s church experience.
6. Youth pastors are just to cool. They are our youth pastor is no exception up on culture, fashion and are typically great communicators.
7. Teens think to be a youth pastor you have to be a retired female teacher or ex-christian school male principle.

What can we do solve this problem.

1. Start off by doing what we can do.
2. Focus on the power of the Holy Spirit and the power of relationships with others.
3. Have small group leaders that take ownership beyond sunday morning.
4. Make every sunday powerful, exciting, different, and FUN.
5. Push the value of kids in every forum God give you.
6. Recognize the gifts and callings God has given kids in your ministry and help the parents develop those gifts at home and in the context of church.
7. Take fashion and culture advise from your local youth pastor. Just kidding sort of.

I would like to add that for me one way I know I am doing my job is when kids that grew up in my ministry that thrive in the youth ministry. I rejoice because I know I had a small part in seeing that kid become whoever God has for them. I truly believe that youth and children’s ministry are inseparable.

What does it take to be a children’s pastor?

In my previous post I was talking about the lack of desire from young people to be a children’s pastor. Of all the teens, young adults and especially those in Bible college I have asked what they want to do in the ministry almost all say youth pastor. I don’t say this in a bitter way at all because I was one of those who said the same thing I want to be a youth pastor.

Before I post my thoughts I do want to back up a bit. At age 13 I had a dramatic experience and knew that God was calling me to full time ministry. I went to four years of bible college took classes to prepare for youth ministry. I did a youth pastor internship for a summer in the church I currently serve as a children’s pastor.

My pastor approached me at bible college and asked me to work full time at the church with the youth. I moved out to utica right out of bible college. I arrived in Utica helped my friend Mike Servello start the youth group. I was here for about a month when one of the pastors sat me down and explained to me that I was in charge of all the kids ministries.

Honestly I was devastated. I felt I was called to work with youth. I just moved across the country. I prayed and asked God if this is what you want me to do then you have to give me a passion for it. It didn’t happen overnight but it did happen. I now feel so passionately about kids ministry that given a choice I will always choose kids ministry.

To be a children’s pastor you need the following:

1. Passion for God
2. Need to be very administrative. You can’t be a children’s pastor without some level of administrative ability.
3. You must be more kingdom minded than department minded.
4. You have to realize that what you do may not be seen by man and be genuinely ok with that.
5. You have to know how to recognize the gifts that people have and know how to implement them.
6. You have to know how to reproduce yourself in others.
7. You need to be able to communicate truth and vision to adult and kids in a simple manor.
8. Work well with the youth pastor. I love our youth pastor. He loves God, so do I and loves Guess again so do I. Check out his blog.
8. You need to have ADD – well that may not be a requirement but it does help, and most children’s pastors I know have a touch of ADD if they were really honest.

Let me know what i am missing.